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 Multiclassing - thoughts ?

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NightBelow

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PostSubject: Multiclassing - thoughts ?   Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:26 am

If and when characters will be capped at level 12 and 15 respectively, are there any thoughts on multiclassing yet ?
Seems to me the revamped pathfinder classes you'll be using will be encouraging single (or double) class characters anyways, since one will get the most out of them, both ability wise and roleplay wise.

Nevertheless it might be worthwile to put up some rules or guidelines for multiclassing. With characters being able to achieve levels as high as 15 at most, I'd suggest a maximum of three classes per character opposed to NWN2's default four classes. Maybe make it mandatory for characters to have at least three levels in each of their classes as well, this will help in keeping cheese- and cherrypicking- builds to a minimum (just remember the one level of shadowdancer everybody was taking back in the days ... Twisted Evil ).

Thoughts ?

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PostSubject: Re: Multiclassing - thoughts ?   Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:42 am

I think it's a good idea to write guidelines and rules on it, but as you already said, multiclassing just screws the player. I imagine all of us here will write some "advice" columns for new players. Frankly, I can't imagine a 4 class combo that doesn't completely screw the player. Almost every classes's primary ability is dependent upon levels in THAT class, so if you multiclass out, you're no longer gaining power in those abilities... ouch.

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PostSubject: Re: Multiclassing - thoughts ?   Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:53 pm

I have no problem with the rule, but the issue in my mind is with the rule's enforcement. If a dm spots a problem with someone mutting out their character, an example would be a 4th level character with a level in ranger/divine champion/fighter/barbarian, what does the dm do? I do not see anything extremely overpowering come out of it. Perhaps if they had two levels of rogue to pick up use poison, a level of barbarian and the extra rage feat, then went straight fighter or divine champion... those would strike me as a powerful builds. Does the dm delevel the character on the spot, and give back the xp with orders to stick to one of his other three classes?

NWNDM suggested that we have favored classes, while I was resistant to the idea at the time, I suppose we could set a favored class for each subrace to attempt and limit cherry picking.
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PostSubject: Re: Multiclassing - thoughts ?   Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:04 pm

Favored classes would be a good addition to script in but i dont think we need it right now. In the case that you're talking about, AWU, I think the dm needs to send the player a tell, ask them about their build. "Hey, what's the idea behind this Rogue/Barbarian/Divine Champion of Pelor? There isn't one? Okay let's talk about how we can make this work..."

Some people are new to roleplaying, and some people are just plain powergamers. If someone can come up with a good IC reason for a rogue/barb/D.c of pelor, I have no problem with it... but if they just wanted to be able to rage and use poison while being a paladin... i'd nix the idea.

We just need to make sure we stress at the appropriate places that roleplaying IS required (not expected) and that each character needs to be planned, not just smashed together.

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PostSubject: Re: Multiclassing - thoughts ?   Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:32 pm

In my previous experiences with NWN1 module in Australia we hadd many powergamers that played other games hosted by the ISP which hosted our module.

Sometimes they cannot give a reason for their build but I'd think if they can and they roleplay when with other players, there should not be any harm provided they are not whoring certain monsters.
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PostSubject: Re: Multiclassing - thoughts ?   Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:13 am

I think that is being too restrictive Mammon, we have no prcs so I say let them mix their base classes as they please. Favored class is a column in the subraces.2da file, so it would not take much time. If you were talking about pathfinder style favored classes, i am not sure that the time invested in changing it would be worthwhile.

I personally have no issue with the Barbarian1/Rogue2/DC of Pelor, so long as he knows how to role-play... seems like a reasonable goodly build to beat bad guys at their own game. He needs good, Str, Cha and Con to be effective, so its not "broken".

I am willing to be a hard ass on what is available, no PRCs, revamping all the classes, adding more base classes... but I do not think we should try to place each PC into our personal "Makes Sense To Me" basket or "WTF Were You Thinking" basket. They should be free to level as they please, as it has been stated, class abilities are based on the number of levels you take in the class most of the time. There are not enough low level, op skills around for us to sit back a worry what if someone ends up a Rogue3/Ranger3/Thug3/Barbarian3... He can rage, has 3d6 sneak attack, +1 dodge bonus to ac, two-weapon fighting, but is limited to wearing light armor or the abilities from two of his classes (Thug and Ranger) will not work.

If we do have a rule, it should be when multiclassing, attempt to keep all classes equal, if you have 4 classes, and get to 15th level, you will be 4/4/4/3... I do not see any class combo that would have mind blowing abilities from doing that. I believe the pure builds will be superior to the mutts, a monk is a good example here, are monks hard to play? Yes, they can be if gear designed for monks is not available (something that will not be the case on this server), but they are also the only class which gets a death attack at 15th level.

Edit: I did set the Sorcerer's Bloodlines and Oracle's Mysteries to be level 1 feats only to prevent multiclassing into these two classes, as their powers should be from birth, not granted after you kill 1000 goblins.
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PostSubject: Re: Multiclassing - thoughts ?   Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:15 am

I mostly agree here, and, like I stated the above as well the pathfinder classes seem to encourage single class 'builds' in any case.

Also, allowing people to level how they please to seems to be fine, as long as certain things like maybe choosing the correct clerical domains or the corresponding deities for monks are made mandatory.

The one thing I'd suggest nevertheless though, is to require players to pick at least 2 or 3 levels in every class they'll be taking. One-level-class-cherrypicking is simply hilarious in some cases. Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: Multiclassing - thoughts ?   Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:23 am

The "starting area" is going to run a script to verify cleric domains, I am going to play around with the divine champion to ensure that they follow the same rules as the cleric where alignment is concerned, if not we might want to consider dropping spells, and granting them feats every four levels.

I am also considering swapping their companion for an ability to enchant their weapon, they would have 4 options: Axiomatic, Chaotic, Holy and Unholy. These would do 1d6 damage at 4th level, and increase to 2d6 at a later level. This would be far less time consuming then stating out their animal companions for 11 levels, and possibly be more useful to the players.

Monk deities are not really restricted, granted, it does not make sense for monks to follow chaotic gods, but then I never agreed with paladins of Sune either.
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PostSubject: Re: Multiclassing - thoughts ?   Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:39 am

All Washed Up wrote:
I am also considering swapping their companion for an ability to enchant their weapon, they would have 4 options: Axiomatic, Chaotic, Holy and Unholy. These would do 1d6 damage at 4th level, and increase to 2d6 at a later level. This would be far less time consuming then stating out their animal companions for 11 levels, and possibly be more useful to the players.

This.

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PostSubject: Re: Multiclassing - thoughts ?   Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:25 pm

Mammon wrote:
All Washed Up wrote:
I am also considering swapping their companion for an ability to enchant their weapon, they would have 4 options: Axiomatic, Chaotic, Holy and Unholy. These would do 1d6 damage at 4th level, and increase to 2d6 at a later level. This would be far less time consuming then stating out their animal companions for 11 levels, and possibly be more useful to the players.

This.

I elected to give them a scaling version of Divine Wrath instead. The problem with doing the alignment damage is it first has to be a on hit effect in the engine, and then is applied to the weapon, the issue is that its buggy and does not always end when it should. The duration/cooldown was to prevent DCs from passing out the weapons to their party, something which can be done with holy sword.

The Divine Champion's spell list has also been updated and added to their entry. Feed back on it would be appreciated.
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PostSubject: Re: Multiclassing - thoughts ?   Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:26 pm

they don't just get the pally list anymore?

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PostSubject: Re: Multiclassing - thoughts ?   Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:21 pm

I usually go with minimum 2 levels in all classes by 10th level.

I also run a low powered campaign and this seems to have worked quite well so far.
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NightBelow

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PostSubject: Re: Multiclassing - thoughts ?   Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:09 am

NWN DM wrote:
I usually go with minimum 2 levels in all classes by 10th level.

I also run a low powered campaign and this seems to have worked quite well so far.


This. cheers
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